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Originally Posted by to_hobbes  Well, some agnostics like myself say it is impossible to prove the existence or non-existence of God. Some agnostics may be "open to being a supernaturalist if you show me proof" as you said, but not me.
I think you can be a regular Church goer, but otherwise not be religious. And I think you can be a believer in God, for example a deist and also a bright. That is, you think there is a God, but he does not influence the universe. This fits the definition for a naturalistic worldview. |
What you personally believe about this is irrelevant. The brights charter clearly states that you cannot believe in the supernatural and be a bright and it gives concrete examples clarifying this point. A belief in a deity means a belief in the supernatural and there is no getting around that. They conveniently classify the world into 2 camps: "Brights" and "supers" (short for supernaturalist).
"But if you would like a way to change this, I unfortunately can't help. So it would be rude of me to tell you not to believe you can be a bright and a deist, and I'll just shut up now."
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GX:
I took a look at their website and it is nothing more than a bunch of atheists who wish to semantically redefine themselves as "brights" for the purpose of shedding the negative connotations and stereotypes of the word "atheist"...
to_hobbes:
This seems to be a very common criticism of the Brights movement, and I as of now, I am not quite sure whether or not I agree with the criticism or not. But I do know that atheists and agnostics get a bad rap, often for no reason, and I think the brights our trying to do something to change that. I see this as being a noble cause.
Take a look at this thread (does god exist because barbers exist?), obviously some people think atheists and agnostics are just a bunch of morons who never ask any questions and systematically deny God for no reason other than they want to be free to live a wicked sinful life.
We know the exact opposite is true, but a lot of people don't know the truth about us and seem to enjoy calling us their enemy. Thats exactly what I want to change.
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It was not a criticism, it was an observation. Relgionists and supernaturalists often get a bad rap from atheists as well. It has been my experience that atheists can be just as hardheaded, vindictive, self righteous and judgmental about religionists as fundamental christians can be of atheists.
If atheists wish to redefine themselves with flowery new age symbolism and terminology and include agnostics in that definition as a recruitment tool, that is fine with me. I havent completely read their manifesto, but it is my hope that this particular movement is tolerant of supernaturalists and has no agenda to proselytize, otherwise, it is no different than any other cult or religion. Making up new words to classify the world into 2 separate distinct camps ("brights" and "supers") doesnt seem to be a good way to start though, and will only cause divisiveness. They should just explain what they are and what they are not and leave it at that.