Agnostic Forums - View Single Post - Whats more important: Being good or Following bibles instructions?

GX · 01-28-2008, 08:56 PM

Thanks for the clarification Joe!
As far as analyzing the Bible to answer your question, Im sure I can come up with many different answers depending on what section I read. Let me cut and paste an example from the website www.near-death.com:

"Bible contradiction #1: How are we saved?

We are saved by faith alone:
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)

"And if by grace, then it is no longer by works ..." (Rom. 11:6)

We are not saved by faith alone:
"You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." (James 2:24)

Both concepts cannot be true. Paul created a theology of salvation by faith alone. The Jerusalem apostles, who came into conflict with Paul on occasions, knew Jesus and his teachings much better than Paul. They continued Jesus' teachings of salvation through good works with faith playing a secondary role. The question to be answered is, "Who do you trust more? Jesus or Paul?" Nevertheless, NDE accounts generally show that we are already saved!"

If you believe in the first 2 verses, then it would be the christians you spoke of going to heaven and the good atheists going to hell. If you were to believe in the 2nd verse then it would be the good atheist and agnostics going to heaven and the christians who believe but are not good people going to hell.

Now, as far as my personal beliefs are concerned, I do believe in God and Jesus Christ but I do not believe in original sin. That i feel is something the church made up to enslave people. I do believe in a heavenly afterlife with many levels depending on your personal spiritual growth. To answer your question from my personal perspective, all of you would go to heaven as there is no such thing as hell. In your particular scenario, the atheist and agnostics would be more advanced spiritual heavenly beings than the christians in the heavenly realms.

01-28-2008, 08:56 PM	#7 (permalink)
GX Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Male, Chicago Illinois, USA Posts: 316	Thanks for the clarification Joe! As far as analyzing the Bible to answer your question, Im sure I can come up with many different answers depending on what section I read. Let me cut and paste an example from the website www.near-death.com: "Bible contradiction #1: How are we saved? We are saved by faith alone: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9) "And if by grace, then it is no longer by works ..." (Rom. 11:6) We are not saved by faith alone: "You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone." (James 2:24) Both concepts cannot be true. Paul created a theology of salvation by faith alone. The Jerusalem apostles, who came into conflict with Paul on occasions, knew Jesus and his teachings much better than Paul. They continued Jesus' teachings of salvation through good works with faith playing a secondary role. The question to be answered is, "Who do you trust more? Jesus or Paul?" Nevertheless, NDE accounts generally show that we are already saved!" If you believe in the first 2 verses, then it would be the christians you spoke of going to heaven and the good atheists going to hell. If you were to believe in the 2nd verse then it would be the good atheist and agnostics going to heaven and the christians who believe but are not good people going to hell. Now, as far as my personal beliefs are concerned, I do believe in God and Jesus Christ but I do not believe in original sin. That i feel is something the church made up to enslave people. I do believe in a heavenly afterlife with many levels depending on your personal spiritual growth. To answer your question from my personal perspective, all of you would go to heaven as there is no such thing as hell. In your particular scenario, the atheist and agnostics would be more advanced spiritual heavenly beings than the christians in the heavenly realms.