lemmex

You’re right I wrote my post with an agenda and in a way lied. I didn’t want to be confrontational. So here goes.

I disagree with the simplicity of observation and comment. I'm sorry what I hear you saying is we are bad people who act selfishly. I could find no value in it. I’m not sure if you making an observation or provide a reason why. The attempt in using the desire angle that motivates us with the link about living in sinful or justified ways and feeling good about one’s self is too simplistic and meaningless. The idea about feeling good is considered below. Your comment is age old, maybe it’s time to try answering it and then we can change it. We're better then you think. Once you understand how we think then you solve your problem.

I have a personal belief which made me respond that may be different then yours, it's that man is basically good by nature and his nature is not evil. He can be good if he chooses to. If this is the case then why isn’t society good. Man will never have a perfect society or life, but we could be close if we choose to.

I do believe Man’s morals exceed God’s morals. We're a composite person believing what we do of ourselves because other people tell us who we are. Religion keeps us from being who we’re suppose to be. When our desire conflict with that and with what others tell us about ourselves there are going to be problems and then we get this crap of right and wrong. The human element is always there. If we’re to understand God we must first understand ourselves and how we think. In other words we have understand desire which we don’t. You’re concept right now is based on what others have told you it is that you have come to form.

Observations without meaning explain nothing. It tends to reinforce things as they stand that justify the status quo. Our idea of right and wrong are based solely on a norm so let’s not even talk about it. The simplest of fact is we live in a guilt-ridden society and religion and society is built on “you are bad”. This is the image we all hold of ourselves. You’re going to say no I don’t, but we do and we repress it and we are not free of it when we talk about this. The feeling good or desire seems to me to be a description of that. But fail to consider when we act and what we classify or justify is really not the issue.

To be motivated (desire) isn’t enough and isn’t an answer unless you don’t think about it or know why we act. All animals act and have desires, man’s desires apparently is something we apply morals to. We must understand why we act if we’re to understand this desire you speak of. My feeling is you don’t understand it. You make the point when you framed your idea form two perspectives and not your own. In a way you’re saying you don’t know.

Desire is neither good or bad. We can’t get around the desire you speak of because we’re inclined to act. We cannot not act therefore this in not what we should be talking about. I believe man can live in peace but there are reasons why man doesn’t. The difference is I think is it is within our control and we choose not to. We must look at, if man is a social animal why can’t he get along in a group setting. Man is a social creature and interaction is built into us. It’s purposeful and contributes to our survival. Just as in the animal world there is competition within our species. There is something more basic and common to us akin to Evolution. In a sense I see your reference to desire misapplied. We each have a uniquenesss and commonality to us that competes.

I hope I stayed within confines of my disagreement with you. I’ll put it on the line. No God is the answer, You are first answer, then they follow.