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Old 11-25-2007, 02:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
Cervantes-Giant
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It's funny because in order to agree with this you need to go into a very limited and already resentful attitude toward catholicism (since this doesn't apply to all organized faiths and therefor automatically false in that all religions are wrong in this sense)


Assault on identity
Children dont really have an identity yet

What if it is an adult, to think only young children become Christians is an incredibly naive and frankly blind thought to entertain, It was long after my childhood years that I had ended up became Christian.

Guilt
"You are a sinful person who betrayed God"

I've never heard anyone use the word betray before, I've heard disappointed and turned away from at the very most, but thats just from my experience so it could just be a circumstantial problem.

Self-betrayal
"Yes I am a sinful person"

How exactly is this self betrayal? It could easily be equatable to a realization, betrayal would suggest that it is wrong to recognize that you do bad things, I'm sure most people on this forum would agree that sleeping around isn't necessarily the most honorable thing there is to do, sin is just an archaic term for something that is looked at as a generally incorrect choice. Hitting someone over talking things out for example beating them up could be called a sin but at the same time it can also be seen as wrong, I think the importance of the word "sin" has been overplayed to its actual importance. I think it's kind of funny that your attacking catholicism and just for the sake of argument I'm defending it and your playing more importance on sin than I am.

Breaking point
"I need jesus to forgive the sins i am guilty of"

Again this only works with Christianity and not "religion", I can't stress that enough in my argument religion is not wrong it is specific religions and specific doctrines within them. Plus for the sake of your argument I think the above scenario is the braking point and this one is the self betrayal because this one has you realizing and accepting the end solution while this one marks you out as a part of the problem and that I think is a lot more effective a breaking point than this.

Leniency
"jesus can forgive ANYTHING just accept him"

This isn't even entirely accurate within the context of Christianity so I can't see how it works here.
This here works in protestantism the most since the two biggest influences for the many protestant denominations was that
A: Jesus is the savior you must accept him and ask forgiveness
and
B: You need to allow jesus into your daily life so that he can help guide you and to live like he did and do good things to help better the world.
A and B being inseparable and one not working without the other

While in catholicism doing good things is buying your way into heaven.

you see you can't just ask Jesus for forgiveness and he'll forgive anything because the second part of it shows that in order to have him forgive you you needed to have allowed him into your life, you can't just go out and kill ten people ask for forgiveness and be done with it, because killing ten people wasn't acting with Jesus in your life and therefor since both A and B weren't fulfilled at the same time A cannot function. And since A cannot work and B regardless if the were inseparable or not doesn't work without A it just unravels.

Compulsion to confess
"All you need to do is confess your sins to jesus and he shall forgive them all"

Read above

Channeling of guilt
"You are or will be in pain because of your sins!"

If this is the hell bit than thats just apart of the faith as a whole and at this point your just attacking Christianity not the religion which are in my opinion separable and when it gets to that its just a personal problem as far as I can tell.

Releasing of guilt
"I am not a bad person, we all sin, I just need to accept jesus as my saviour"

I'll agree with you on this part here but it isn't necessarily a bad thing and since a person needs to personally make that decision if they make it or not is entirely their choice, if they agree that this is true then I don't see if there is a problem however if they agree to this but see it as untrue their lying to themselves and in which case any problems down the road they are entirely responsible for.


Progress and harmony
"If i chose jesus, I will not burn"

This is a bit over simplifying it to a point of near untruth, in strict catholic doctrine this might be a bit accurate but for loose casual Christianity like most Christians today are this doesn't really apply to the modern incarnation of the faith as a whole, at least from my observations.

Final confession and rebirth
"Born again Christian"

Unless of coarse down the road the person feels as though this isn't right for them and they abandon the cause, a few people might be sad but unless you come from a nazi-esque totalitarian Christian home nobody will be angry, not if they follow the teachings of Christ as Christians should. But otherwise yeah I agree with this statement, but is that necessarily a bad thing.
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