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Originally Posted by trufbetold  amazing, that was the first time I ever heard, the term anti-believer by an agnostic. |
I can have negative reactions to strong theists, strong atheists, and strong agnostics. My views fit most closely to weak atheism meaning I neither deny God nor deny the possibility of knowing God. A quote by Jung that could apply to me:
"I could not say I believe — I know! I have had the experience of being gripped by something that is stronger than myself, something that people call God."
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Atheist say there is no God, Agnostics say, I don't know if there is a God, in either case, how can you believe on something that you don't believe, so to speak. You are both "non-believers".
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I'm a non-believer in the Christian God, but a strong atheist is a believer. Its just that the strong atheist actively believes God doesn't exist and hence is an anti-believer in reference to theism.
Obviously, though, I'm not a non-believer about everything. I do believe or highly suspect a greater something beyond me. I'm only doubtful when it comes to specifics.
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the bible is clear: nobody can chose God
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I don't know about the Bible being clear on this matter, but I like this kind of idea. Nobody chooses God nor chooses a specific vision of God. I might go so far as to say even God doesn't choose because God simply is like a force of nature simply is.
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a few agnostics I have met use the exact same atheist rebuttals which as you've intevitably guessed it start with "God can't exist, because if He does....".
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There are two possibilities. Some people claiming to be agnostic may not actually be agnostic. And some people who are agnostic also are atheists.
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How can open-mindedness or any kind of mindedness for that matter even be in an agnostic's vocabulary? Even the word agnostic is from the greek word agnosis, which means ignorant and is often used to describe a fool, google it sir, I'm not making a jest at you.
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Etymology doesn't directly say anything about the contemporary common use of a word. I've recently been studying the various meanings of this and related words. This is my favorite article on agnosticism:
http://www.robertmprice.mindvendor.c...ticgnostic.htm Quote:
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Everything that glitters is not gold, I have several dozen books I read from "intelligent christians"authors, but I refuse to make a further comment on this term until you explain what you mean by it.
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I only meant that he was well-read and knew his material in detail.
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You'll have to pardon me, I have been known to be in the flesh sometime, with that said, if what I am telling you or anybody wise enough to read this the truth, and that this is an urgent matter, what does it matter? The truth presented without love is still the truth, discrediting me will not change that.
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Its fine. I don't mind a little heated debate. I agree that in a sense(different from what you mean for sure) its an urgent matter. I wasn't trying to discredit you. I can be critical sometimes, but I didn't mean to imply that your perspective has no validity. I'm sure your experience feels real and true to you.
What I mean by faith is something distinct from belief or at least specific beliefs and based on experience. Faith is more of an intuitive insight into reality and possibility. Faith is non-rational but isn't irrational because it doesn't refute or conflict with rationality.
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There is much more at risk than uncertainty.
| Your absolutely right on the money with this one! Like what
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I'm assuming that "Like what" is a question. If so, I suppose there are many answers. There are all kinds of things involved in this world(individually and socially) without considering the next world. I gave a good answer to this somewhere else on this forum.
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If you want mutual respect, then back off of the hardcore preaching and name-calling.
| Sir you just proved my point exactly. I could have been a spammer and you'd be more tolerable. Actually I cannot stop preaching the gospel, it is the truth I tell you.
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What was your point that I proved? And how did I prove it?
I wouldn't necessarily be more tolerable of a spammer if they came on as you have. But a spammer is unlikely to present themselves as you have. A spammer wouldn't preach, and they'd probably stop after the first post.
Would you mind saying something more about how you came to your beliefs? I'd be interested in your personal experiences. What caused you to look into religion in the first place?