Quote:
Originally Posted by brig  Does God Not Exist?
The link is for an excellent debate between Dan Barker, a former evangelical Christian Minister but now Atheist, and Hassanain Rajabali, Principal of the Tawheed Institute of New York and a Muslim.
It was interesting for me, being a former Muslim, but this is more of a Atheism vs. Theism debate, just coming at the Theism side via Islam.
The one thing I found noteworthy is that most of Rajabali's arguments, in their most fundamental state, are founded on a belief system. The only ones that are not is when he argues that an Atheist is wrong to claim knowledge that God does not exist, as that is also an improvable belief. And as Agnostics we also follow that.
It is a very long read, but well worth it I thought, and has strengthened my Agnostic feelings, and perhaps even reinforced a few of my Atheistic ones.
Would be nice to hear other people's views on it.
Edit: Just realised this should be in God Talk. Could a Mod move it, as I can't seem to find the option to delete this thread? |
I feel that was a very good debate. The funny thing is I have just mentioned on an atheist site the same point Rajabali has made. So many of these so called "free thinking Atheist" are not true to their own cause because if you believe people should think freely then you cannot really have a dialogue now can you? The dialogue itself is persuasive to one or the other. I told an Atheist on another site, to be true to himself he must give up speaking about God entirely because if he doesn't belive God exist then what God is there to talk about? Now isn't that a God delusion to speak about God when you claim he isn't there. The atheist wants to denigrate God but how can you critisize what is not real? No atheist that speaks about his belief can be called someone promoting "free thought" it is impossible. Do I believe in free thought? Of course not! I want to convince you to believe that what I experience is a valid experience because I know that is what will lead you to that place that is blissfull. Everyone will tell you "I'm not trying to convince you, BUT...." and that "but" is exposing their lie. Guidance is a key function of being human. We were made to be taught, so why are people telling you to think for yourselves? Because when you make someone think they thought of something on their own it works better.
If we could just end all this Dishonesty and Obsession those that wish to influence people should say "I am trying to influence you" But the reason most can't say that is because to be that Honest something about you has to be so authentic that that person already wants "what you have".
Just being authentic you can then end the charade. You can say to the atheist. "How do you recognize intelligence unless you are reflecting intelligence?" "How do you know a light is a light unless you have been exposed to light?" "How do you know that dark is dark unless you know what dark is?" "and how can you know anything without the knowing within you which is a reflection of the Knower."
We never ask where did the number 1 come from but we know it exists and it didn't come out of 0 because 0 is empty and 2 is too much.