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Originally Posted by harleylove  I would die for my children in a heartbeat, wouldn't even have to think twice about it. I understand what you are saying but I still disagree. I would die for my children because I want them to live, I want them to experience life, I want them to stay on this wonderful planet and have a chance to accomplish their dreams. Can you understand where I am coming from? |
I do understand Harley,yet you admit you are selfless without knowing. First of all,that you would die in a heartbeat for your child shows you are selfless,because if you were truly selfish your own mortality would be the first thing on your mind,your own self preservation would be first priority,as it is with all other creatures .
Remember,the argument here from atheist philosophers is that we are highly intelligent animals,the most intelligent,and that this intelligence has meant we developed complicated feelings and thoughts through interaction with others in society etc,but that despite this intelligence we are unquestionably selfish! that whatever we do has a selfish motive,that all things including love have a selfish purpose
But If you had two children say,one at 6 and the other at 8, and tragically one of them were going to die,and you could prevent it by offering your own life,you would allow it to die if you were only selfish ! ,because where is the sense in leaving one child without a parent and dying yourself into the bargain when you could live and just have another child ? No sense at all if what atheist philosophers suggest were true,none whatsoever.
If you are the most intelligent creature on the planet,and all other creatures that are less intelligent have the intelligence to allow their offspring to die when they have to and move on without any worries,then why cant you ?
I dont deny that some animal parents may put themselves in danger for their offspring,but then that
is an example of kin altruism,which is a selfish motive,and does not prove anything in the argument against selflessness .
Because all other animals except humans are fundamentally selfish,if a mother bear is with its young,and a man shoots at them with a gun,it may get angry,but it has learned that a gun is more powerful than itself,so it will run and hope that its young catch up .Creatures may take on other predators bigger than themselves,but when they know without doubt they will die,they will not,because they are inteligent and know that they can reproduce again at a later time
There is a limit to what other animals will do to protect their young,and
some other animals which will stand up to predators do so for selfish reasons,because they must protect their biological investment,because they do not reproduce as other creatures like rats for example,so losing their offspring means more to those creatures which produce less young.
To say that because some creatures will endanger their own lives for their young is an argument against selflessness is preposterous
When other creatures like wildebeast move from one region to the next,as they do every year,in search of new grass to eat and water,they will leave any young they have behind in a second if that offspring has developed a weakness,an illness,and it cannot keep up. All creatures are like this Harley,they will leave the weakest behind, as darwin said,it is the survival of the fittest,all creatures will do this-
except humans,or at least most humans
Atheist philosophers argue that nature has intelligence,and that it is due to our remarkable intelligence that we are capable of amazing things,so they all agree we are highly intelligent. Yet, with your
higher intelligence you should then understand that to allow the child to die and go on to have another one would be of greater benifit,because that way you get to live,
and you get to have another child who will also live,and go on to live in the world,and experience its dreams,as you say
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Mostly though, if one of my children died and I could have stopped it I may as well die myself because I would never be able to live with myself.
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Haha, My point is proven then. Because if you were truly selfish why would you want to die ? That is not logical,if you were truly made up of only selfish genes then you would not want to die,but live,because your animal instinct would be telling you to survive
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What if one of our children would rather die themselves than see one of us die. Would we even take that into consideration, I know I wouldn't, I would do it anyway regardless of how they felt, assuming they would get over it
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In fact its very likely that a child may request that they die over their parent,because we are born with selfishness,in as much as we have inherited some of the genes from our animal past,yet a child may request this because we are also born with selfless genes,which makes us more than other animals,it makes us humans