Vfr

Warning:

This post contains extreme profanities. If such language is offensive do not read.

All quotes come from usenet alt.atheism and are of public record.


Kelsey Bjarnason:

"What the hell would we need "spiritual values" for when we can have real values instead?"


*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

V:


Hi and thank you for your reply Kelsey.

Yes, spiritual concepts are hard to define, just as the source of the wind is hard to define.

Since spiritual matters deal with the unseen and the unknown, how can we define them perfectly?

If we could do that they would not be spiritual studies.

You can't see why one person is loving and kind and another person is a fiend of perennial shame, hate and destruction.

Nor can you see what made the hate monger change into a kind and loving human.

We can describe spiritual concepts and the journey that made the change possible, but it is impossible to put our finger on it all exactly.

Spiritual growth is a journey that is a never ending, an imperfect process in this life.

But just as we can see the effects of the wind and gravity, while being blind to its source; we can most definitely see the difference in people that incorporate spiritual values within their lives when compared to people that live a life devoid of any spiritual values.

No one said we have to 'investigate it all,' but we do have to give it some thought if we wish to be at peace.

A Hindu sage once told me "Just as water floes downhill without effort but requires outside forces and energy to make it move uphill. So the human consciousness falls to its lowest levels of the senses without effort and energies to make our consciousness gravitate to more than our base desires."

As such without effort, the defiance based atheists sinks deeper and deeper into sickness and tragedy as time goes by.

Lets look at some of the 'real values' that atheists develop once they drop spirituality from the equation Kelsey.

As you can see below, the defiance based, mind manacled, spiritually sick atheist can go out of their way to be very cruel.

The Buddhists follow the eightfold path of right living and one of these paths encompasses right speech.

One time I brought up this subject of right speech at alt.atheism and was responded to as such.

Robibnikoff wrote: "So. ****ing what...do you think I give a flying **** what you think, dipshit...Not that it's any of YOUR ****ing business...Don't presume that you know what's best for me, you deluded, mother****ing, cocksucking son of a whore." (condensed)


With my first few posts, I offered to discuss tools that the atheist, agnostic or theist can all share to develop inner peace.

These are just a few of the responses at alt.atheism on the topics of developing compassion, simplicity, ethics, morals, mindfulness, reciprocity, philosophical studies, charity, accepting impermanence, and developing gratitude.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christopher A. Lee wrote: "So ****ing what? Keep it to yourself and nobody will know what an asshole you are."

Kate wrote: "I've never been not at peace. What you offer makes me physically ill. It's like a nasty man come round to tell little kiddees he has candy for them if they touch his pee pee. You know, most of the atheists I know are as good as children are at discerning misrepresentation. You aren't trying to help anyone but your own self. Go away, we have no interest in touching your pee pee."

Christopher A. Lee wrote: "What the **** has philosophy got to do with your in-your-face psychopathy?"

Michael Gray wrote: "Stop posting your vile polemic deliberately nasty, lying Christian? . Please go away. No-one is buying your poisonous diatribe. Are you really this stupid, or just pretending?"

John Baker wrote: "First of all, this is a newsgroup, not the freaking public library. Keep it short and to the point. Second, you're full of ****."

Christopher A. Lee wrote: "We know this deliberately nasty, slandering liar is a Christian by his fruits...a liar as well as an idiot...don't be so ****ing stupid."

Christopher A. Lee wrote: "You wouldn't know "virtuous behaviour" if it hit you over the head, whining hypocrite who needs to get the log out of his own eye before accusing us of a projection of his own deficiencies."

Christopher A. Lee wrote: "a few hundred lines of irrelevant bullshit by a whining hypocrite who
doesn't practice what he preaches, deleted"

Robibnikoff wrote: "Shaddup, you dick."

Michael Gray wrote: "There ain't nothin' lamer than a jabriol ****wit"

Christopher A. Lee wrote: "Whi give a ****, in-your-face stuipid moron?"

John Baker wrote: 'I'd almost feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a disgusting piece of ****."

Robibnikoff wrote: "I hope that stupid ****er (V) doesn't think I actually read all that dog **** he posts."

Robibnikoff wrote: "....no one gives a **** what you think."

Stoney wrote: "Fundies and trolls are cordially invited to shove a wooden cross up their arses and rotate at a high rate of speed. I trust you'll be 'blessed' with a plethora of splinters."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I could send you an almost endless supply of such material to prove the point that without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk.

The conundrum of the mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick atheist is this.

They need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their own defiance blocks them from seeking and finding these values.

The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find peace.

If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves with many spiritually sick example members and their projection of this spiritual sickness and self hate onto others


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Robibnikoff wrote: "Blah, blah, blah... you boring sack of ****."

Mark K Bilbo wrote: "..you're an asshole...a self-absorbed prick who thinks everything is about him."

Mark K Bilbo wrote: "For a "peace" freak, you sure are a spiteful little ****."

Panama Floyd wrote: "...this guy is funny. Why don't we wait a while before we eat him? Maybe he'll poopie himself!."

John Baker wrote: "Oh, shut the **** up, you self-righteous twit."

Robibnikoff wrote: "**** you, liar"

Michael Gray wrote: "You exhibit all the signs of full clinical sociopathy, if not actual psychopathy. You need professional help, but won't take it, as that would entail admitting that the ****ups that are always happening to you are YOUR fault."

Michael Gray wrote: "If you insist upon continuing to strut your massive ego and miniscule education in alt.atheism, we'll use you for target practice, until we get bored with your repetitious long-winded empty-headed bullshit-frosted ignorance."

Michael Gray wrote: "What do you expect from a lying sack of ****?"

Raven1 wrote: "God, will you get over that ****ing ego of yours already?"

Mark K Bilbo wrote: "what you write is self-absorbed, condescending, arrogant rife, ego masturbation. You're in love with yourself, don't care what other people think or feel, and have the emotional maturity of a two year old."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


All atheists are not like this.

Some spiritual based atheist far surpass theists in compassion and inner peace.

The troubling thing at alt.atheism is no one speaks out against such illness and this IS being promoted as atheistic view.

I wrote to the president of American Atheists, I wrote to the UK Atheists as well s a Secular Humanist Foundation and Sam Harris about this very topic...none had the courtesy to respond.

Atheists are their own worse enemy when it comes to promoting their cause and trampling over organized religion.

Just as the bible is a major force with theists leaving religion, the spiritually sick, mind manacled, defiance based atheist is the best reason that theists return to their religion.

Such wavering theists quickly come to realize that without a foundation spirituality the atheist is sunk and rapidly head back to their church, temple or fellowship to get away from such people.

end page 1